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a beautiful word: project. We imagine the
future, we project to the future. One could
say that this is what everybody does, but in
architecture it’s especially clear.
DL: It is, and for foundations we have to
dig up earth. This is not often talked about,
but it’s a very violent act.
FN: You are substantially modifying the
place in which you are going to work, modify-
ing the world, and that is a hard thing to do.
ES: We have been working a lot under-
ground, also on rooftops. I’m reminded of
what Gaston Bachelard said about houses:
that they are very vertical objects whose main
elements are the basement and the roof, places
where children like to play.
DL: True. When I proposed, at Ground
Zero, to preserve the entire underground, peo-
ple thought I was crazy because it was very
expensive and lucrative, real estate. Maybe
this is what you are saying about Bachelard.
Being where hardly anybody has ever been,
except perhaps construction workers, is an
extraordinary experience. It’s important for
people to have access to the bedrock of New
York because it’s one of the most incredible
places. And this has been a very successful
intervention because it has to do with going
down, in a city where everybody goes upward.
It attracts a lot of people. I have been there
many times and seen how people are amazed.
It’s almost childlike, like a memory. It’s as if
it were sacred, a bit like heaven.
FN: A beautiful idea. We often look at the
sky and when we only see sky, it’s interesting,
like in some of James Turrell’s works.
DL: Yes, or like when Albert Camus said
that even though you are very poor and have
nothing, you have the sky for free.
ES: It’s interesting that the sky is free but
the earth very expensive; a total division,
another way of separating two worlds. I’ve
always thought that when you talk about ar-
chitecture, there’s a constant struggle between
earth and sky. The most ancient architectures
were bound to the earth, and the most con-
temporary architecture tries to fly. But I have
never thought of it from a money point of view.
