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the crucial nature of collaboration, as well as
the potential for disaster if ideology becomes
more important than objectivity. The degree
of collaborative consensus is critical to con-
fronting complex situations. And that is why
I am so interested in the European Union,
which in a way is like a bigger Holland, and
also needs to establish a culture of consensus
that can be detached from political colors,
addressing communality and shared values.
That’s a very Dutch mentality.
RI: In your statement for the Venice Bien-
nale (2014) and in your talk in Pamplona you
singled out the problem of a ‘digital regime.’
We are all increasingly participating with
mechanisms that substitute our own thoughts
with external memory devices. It seems a big
problem humanistically that we will start to
lose contact with the intelligence inside of us.
The technology is moving so fast that we are
completely unaware of how pervasive it is
becoming. There is a real danger of the means
becoming the end in themselves. Should we
attempt to counteract, or slow things down,
or at least feel that we are in control of them?
RK: I would not put it that way, even
though I agree, as it sounds too nostalgic.
There is something to be said about how easy
it has become in just a short time to acquire
an unbelievable amount of information. But
to transform this information into knowledge
is of course an art. I frankly do not see people
getting more stupid, even if I am worried
about the culture it implies. The commercial
momentum that is behind current paradigms
like the Smart City are very interesting in the
sense that their proponents seem to be hiding
the speculative incentive that is behind more
general narratives. Whether this will result
in social control or manipulation remains to
be seen. But my difficulty with your kind of
critique is that in a way, I can never fully
endorse it, even though I think you are not
altogether wrong. I think that the way you
formulate your analysis is so incapable of
seeing anything good in what is happening
today, and I cannot agree with that. I share
many of the same concerns, but find that
the anti-modernity behind them is an elitist
position. I do not think we are in a situation
where 10 billion people can be anti-modern.
Maybe the few who are lucky to have a farm
in Tuscany can afford to be anti-modern.
So that would be my answer as well on the
corporate issue. I still think that we are con-
demned to modernity and that we must try
to make something out of it.
